Comments on: Why doesn’t Frodo just ride an eagle to Mount Doom? http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/ Aiya! Periannath.com is a weblog for the genuine Tolkien aficionado. There are no 13-year-old Orlando Bloom fans here. Get news and features about the writings, the legendarium, the languages, collectibles and games, and yes, the movies. Mon, 06 May 2013 05:48:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: David http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-829 David Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:53:54 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-829 Nope..they should have just flown the eagles.. But really...Tolkien shouldn't have introduced them at all... Case closed Nope..they should have just flown the eagles..

But really…Tolkien shouldn’t have introduced them at all… Case closed

]]> By: Micah http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-828 Micah Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:47:26 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-828 Sorry for the typo Sorry for the typo

]]> By: Micah http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-827 Micah Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:45:00 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-827 I love LOTR. Great books , good movies. If you put this much time I to discussing them you have to much time. Get a job and be productive. I love LOTR. Great books , good movies. If you put this much time I to discussing them you have to much time. Get a job and be productive.

]]> By: Izzy http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-818 Izzy Sat, 30 Mar 2013 00:57:54 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-818 The amount of times I've had to explain all this to people... The amount of times I’ve had to explain all this to people…

]]> By: fantasywind http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-817 fantasywind Sun, 17 Mar 2013 19:56:21 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-817 Interesting another point of view that searches for easier ways :). The proposed route is dangerously in range of sight from Barad-dur it's just crossing betwenn it and Orodruin so Sauron would rather notice when he would look towards the Black Gate. Well some of the other points on the sean crist site are also not exactly what I would agree with. First Ered Lithui or Ashen Mountains must have took it's name from somewhere and thus it means lots of ash and fumes of Orodruin high in the air and winds specifically direct it towards this mountain range to accumulate. Middle Earth is after all a world where normal laws of physic and nature work, birds especially so large as Great Eagles would quickly choke from it and their morality is sometimes questioned in The Hobbit we're told that many eagles are not so nice as most think they are this gives a a debatable matter of their resistance to the rings inmfluence (not to mention that near Orodruin NOBODY would have the strength of will to destroy it even in short time): ,,Eagles are not kindly birds. Some are cowardly and cruel. But the ancient race of the northern mountains were the greatest of all birds; they were proud and strong and noble-hearted." The said group can be better but they still have wild nature and flaws of character. Also Gwaihir himself states that he can carry burdens many leagues but not for long. Speed of fell beast is also described as ,,faster than any wind" so the Eagles outmatching them is not so certain (Gandalf in his words only expresses desire to try be faster than them). Frodo and Sam rescue is not fully described but I bet they didn't fly so high as to be unnoticed from ground because eruption would relese more dangerous poisonous fumes and ash. Interesting another point of view that searches for easier ways :). The proposed route is dangerously in range of sight from Barad-dur it’s just crossing betwenn it and Orodruin so Sauron would rather notice when he would look towards the Black Gate. Well some of the other points on the sean crist site are also not exactly what I would agree with. First Ered Lithui or Ashen Mountains must have took it’s name from somewhere and thus it means lots of ash and fumes of Orodruin high in the air and winds specifically direct it towards this mountain range to accumulate. Middle Earth is after all a world where normal laws of physic and nature work, birds especially so large as Great Eagles would quickly choke from it and their morality is sometimes questioned in The Hobbit we’re told that many eagles are not so nice as most think they are this gives a a debatable matter of their resistance to the rings inmfluence (not to mention that near Orodruin NOBODY would have the strength of will to destroy it even in short time):
,,Eagles are not kindly birds. Some are cowardly and cruel. But the ancient race of the northern mountains were the greatest of all birds; they were proud and strong and noble-hearted.” The said group can be better but they still have wild nature and flaws of character.

Also Gwaihir himself states that he can carry burdens many leagues but not for long.

Speed of fell beast is also described as ,,faster than any wind” so the Eagles outmatching them is not so certain (Gandalf in his words only expresses desire to try be faster than them). Frodo and Sam rescue is not fully described but I bet they didn’t fly so high as to be unnoticed from ground because eruption would relese more dangerous poisonous fumes and ash.

]]> By: Aaron http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-816 Aaron Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:37:07 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-816 None of this invalidates that it's a plothole. It could conceivably be that Manwe has no interest in intervening at this point, but the fact of the matter is that that is not mentioned--more poignantly, it's not brought up as an option at the Council of Elrond (to be dismissed), even though they clearly considered every other possible option. I feel like this link here sums it up pretty well: http://www.sean-crist.com/personal/pages/eagles/index.html As far as "out-smarting Tolkein" from the comment above--that's a pretty narrow way to think about it. These books are enormous in scope, and they only scratch the surface of the monster world-building exercise that is Middle Earth. If there's one plothole, I think it would be unreasonable to look down on Tolkein for it. But that doesn't mean there isn't a plothole. None of this invalidates that it’s a plothole. It could conceivably be that Manwe has no interest in intervening at this point, but the fact of the matter is that that is not mentioned–more poignantly, it’s not brought up as an option at the Council of Elrond (to be dismissed), even though they clearly considered every other possible option. I feel like this link here sums it up pretty well: http://www.sean-crist.com/personal/pages/eagles/index.html

As far as “out-smarting Tolkein” from the comment above–that’s a pretty narrow way to think about it. These books are enormous in scope, and they only scratch the surface of the monster world-building exercise that is Middle Earth. If there’s one plothole, I think it would be unreasonable to look down on Tolkein for it. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a plothole.

]]> By: Ivy http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-813 Ivy Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:59:21 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-813 Thanks for putting this so eloquently. I absolutely hate it when people think they can outsmart Tolkien by pointing this out, when if you've read the books it's quite easy to see that the Eagles are intelligent creatures who don't take orders from anyone! Thanks for putting this so eloquently. I absolutely hate it when people think they can outsmart Tolkien by pointing this out, when if you’ve read the books it’s quite easy to see that the Eagles are intelligent creatures who don’t take orders from anyone!

]]> By: What I’ve Been Reading: January 20, 2013 « Refrigerator Rants http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-812 What I’ve Been Reading: January 20, 2013 « Refrigerator Rants Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:52:12 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-812 [...] Periannath, Erik David Even explains away one of the supposed plot holes in The Lord of the Rings: why doesn’t Frodo simply ride an eagle to Mount Doom? It’s a lengthy explanation that delves into Middle Earth lore, but I prefer a simpler one: [...] [...] Periannath, Erik David Even explains away one of the supposed plot holes in The Lord of the Rings: why doesn’t Frodo simply ride an eagle to Mount Doom? It’s a lengthy explanation that delves into Middle Earth lore, but I prefer a simpler one: [...]

]]> By: fantasywind http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-811 fantasywind Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:27:59 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-811 First Eagles from what I recall are not Maiars (only spirits sent to live their existance as giant sentient birds, they are rational incarnate creatures to use Tolkien's own words, just like ents, so being a race means they live and multiply as all other races, elves, men, hobbits, dwarves, orcs, ents), they also have faults, make mistakes (they are divine messangers but not divine themselves, well even divines in Lotr can make them just like god-like Sauron's wrong assumptions based on limited knowledgem, omniscience is not total for Maiar and Valar, they know things beyond mortal comprehension, yet are not infallible and all-knowing, certain things are hidden from them), though capable of speech, strong and big the Eagles are not invincible, they tire, they express emotion and weakness, can be wounded and killed. In the First Age they were active on the behalf of Valar but as the time goes by the contact with the Powers is severed and Eagles rarely ever receive messages from higher bosses (only instance when the Eagles arrive at Morannon) other times it's either pure luck or deliberate action on their part (Battle of Five Armies, they came after the army of orcs which movements they registered, help to the dwarf company and Gandalf, pure chance and a bit of gratitude for Gandalf's healing of the King of Eagles from arrow wound). There's lots of reasonable explanations which take into account the in-universe limitations, natural order. Also Mordor has more ways of protection of it's borders than only flying creatures that serve Sauron, first very hostile environment, air full of ash and poisonous fumes, the rescue of Frodo and Sam was a risk they took when in total chaos of destruction no other force could hinder their flight (like incapacitating power of Sauron Eye and it's vigilance, power to ,,govern the storms in the Mountains of Shadow" and mundane armed forces guarding the borders, the Egles feared the bow wielding men, so orcs, who even had war machines, like catapults would be quite serious threat, animal spies and such could detect them). It's not as simple as it seems. First Eagles from what I recall are not Maiars (only spirits sent to live their existance as giant sentient birds, they are rational incarnate creatures to use Tolkien’s own words, just like ents, so being a race means they live and multiply as all other races, elves, men, hobbits, dwarves, orcs, ents), they also have faults, make mistakes (they are divine messangers but not divine themselves, well even divines in Lotr can make them just like god-like Sauron’s wrong assumptions based on limited knowledgem, omniscience is not total for Maiar and Valar, they know things beyond mortal comprehension, yet are not infallible and all-knowing, certain things are hidden from them), though capable of speech, strong and big the Eagles are not invincible, they tire, they express emotion and weakness, can be wounded and killed. In the First Age they were active on the behalf of Valar but as the time goes by the contact with the Powers is severed and Eagles rarely ever receive messages from higher bosses (only instance when the Eagles arrive at Morannon) other times it’s either pure luck or deliberate action on their part (Battle of Five Armies, they came after the army of orcs which movements they registered, help to the dwarf company and Gandalf, pure chance and a bit of gratitude for Gandalf’s healing of the King of Eagles from arrow wound). There’s lots of reasonable explanations which take into account the in-universe limitations, natural order. Also Mordor has more ways of protection of it’s borders than only flying creatures that serve Sauron, first very hostile environment, air full of ash and poisonous fumes, the rescue of Frodo and Sam was a risk they took when in total chaos of destruction no other force could hinder their flight (like incapacitating power of Sauron Eye and it’s vigilance, power to ,,govern the storms in the Mountains of Shadow” and mundane armed forces guarding the borders, the Egles feared the bow wielding men, so orcs, who even had war machines, like catapults would be quite serious threat, animal spies and such could detect them). It’s not as simple as it seems.

]]> By: Azazel http://periannath.com/feature/why-doesnt-frodo-just-ride-an-eagle-to-mount-doom/comment-page-1/#comment-795 Azazel Tue, 25 Sep 2012 00:49:33 +0000 http://periannath.com/?p=497#comment-795 Awesome article. It clearly demonstrates and explains the problem, with a light language and wise remarks. Awesome article. It clearly demonstrates and explains the problem, with a light language and wise remarks.

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